The Illustrious Ya ([info]putti_plush) wrote,
@ 2008-04-12 14:49:00
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Current mood: disappointed

John Ankerberg
I have been watching the debates of John Ankerberg. He is an Evangelical Christian TV host of his own (sorry) ghetto-ass TV programme. What I love about some of his programmes is that he'll bring on people of other faiths to debate with Christianity. He is obviously biased BUT he does let the other faiths speak! I appreciate that he lets his "opponent" guests speak without interruption, and that if one of the Christian guests is getting uppity, he'll stop the squabbling. Sometimes the opponent guests look bod, but more often they defend themselves well. I was very impressed with the Baha'i and Catholic guests. The only opponent guests that really made asses of themselves were the Muslims, who were constantly "BUT OURS IS THE ONLY WAY. WE ACCEPT CHRISTIANITY YES BUT YOU MUST ALL BECOME MUSLIM BLARGLARGL." The Muslims also TWISTED their own words and the words of the other side, giving me a headache. "But Mr. Christian, you are UNAWARE of the intricacies of the arabic tongue!" Mr. Christian was an Arab himself who spoke it fluently and had linguistics degrees in other ancient semetic languages! I think he knew what he was talking about!
Although I admired the catholic Jesuit priest, I couldn't finish watching the "Catholocism VS Christianity" debates. Mostly because CATHOLOCISM IS CHRISTIANITY YOU FOOCHTARDS. I find the whole Evangelical Protestant VS Catholic dabates BORING AND GALLING. So you want to have salvations through faith alone, and you believe that faith without works is hollow. Sure, personal belief. Can't we all just get along, foochas? The Evangelicals made gigantic asses of themselves going "NO U, UR WRONG."
The evangelicals were also horrible against the Baha'i guests. The Baha'i layed out their beliefs very clearly and succinctly. Then the evangelical went BUT NO YOU'RE WRONG. It all came down to how to interpret the Bible, with one side interpreting one way, and the other side a different way. Throughout the entire debate, you could hear the evangelical go "you are so funny. You are speaking, but I hear no words." ex:
"YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN JEEEESUS., YOU BELIEVE IN BAHA'ULLAH."
"We believe that Baha'ullah was the return of Jesus Christ, one of many incarnations of God to teach Man."
"SEE YOU JUST SAID IT, BAHA'ULLAH."
"We believe that Baha'ullah and Jesus are the same person."
"TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE, YOU JUST SAID IT!"
"Two different names, sir."
"JEEEEEEEEEEEESUS!"


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[info]raikoala
2008-04-12 09:55 pm UTC (link)
Wow... the way people waste their time... Why would religious people DEBATE with each other, anyway? It's all the same.
"I believe in this"
"Well, I believe in this."

... there is no argument to debate on.... no facts to present except
"I have a book"
"Well, I have a book, too"
which isn't exactly helpful.

In all dear respect, they need to call and present it as something other than debate.


...... by the way... why so many anti-creationists posts lately? Your journal seems to be exploding with them all of a sudden!

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[info]putti_plush
2008-04-13 02:36 am UTC (link)
Yeah, it's really annoying having religions fight each other. "YOU'RE BELIEVING THE WRONG THING!!!" Guh.

To answer your question: I've had it, I'm just damn tired of all this bullshit. These people make me ashamed of my Christian upbringing, they make me ashamed of religion and belief to see where it can take idiots. This is my way of putting my foot down against creationists without becoming an Atheist. BEcoming an Atheist isn't the solution for me; railing angrily against idiots is. I won't try to tell people my beliefs are superior, but when people start being utter idiots, I will SO CALL THEM ON IT.

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[info]raikoala
2008-04-13 10:35 am UTC (link)
That's like me really having it with Expelled lately. XD

And I really see how ashamed real theologians, intelligent Christians and moderate believers must feel at times, facing the things that are done through abusing their faith. Add Richard Dawkins to that, who promotes the condemnation of ALL religion as the best solution, and people like you become a rare minority that gets discredited along with the lunatics - "oops, we caught a good fish in the net, oh well, that's an acceptable expense."

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[info]putti_plush
2008-04-13 07:11 pm UTC (link)
Although I respect Mr. Dawkins, and view him as an intelligent and well informed man, I cannot help but see that he views Religion with a bias, or perhaps a slash-and-burn tactic. Abolishing religion would do away with religious extremists and the mental handicaps of blind faith, but it would also be throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Religion and Myth are central to culture. We tell fairytales on different scales as a way to talk about our lives and the big questions through use of allegory. I believe that most of life should eb approached from a rational perspective, but the things which make us the most human and make us feel the most special are the perview of "religion." In a completely rational society, people would act civilly toward one another, but if things were approached from a totally rational basis, one culture for all of humanity with local mutations due to environment would be assessed and practiced. Native peoples around the world are struggling with a form of culture-loss. It's nto just about their language, its also about Western civilization drowning out their religion and society in order to conform to western ideals.
Some religious ideas are downright wrong, but they are most often CULTURAL ideas first. For example, Female Circumcision CAN be backed with Koranic verse, but it is NOT prescribed directly in the Koran. It is wrong to block learning and advancement, and any religion that tries to do so is espousing a wrong idea. After all, the attempt to advance sparked a good deal of religious reform!

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[info]raikoala
2008-04-13 07:36 pm UTC (link)
I do understand what you mean and I do understand your point against Richard Dawkins. While I still agree with you, I want to say that Dawkins' view is that any form of religion evens the way to fundamentalism and I do see his point. He also agrees that religion is an important cultural part and that speaking up against belief does not mean, speaking up against knowledge or interest in belief. He just thinks it should be treated the same way as we treat ancient beliefs these days - with interests, but not actually believing in the sun god Ra or in Thor. I do not necessarily agree with this, but I also don't want you to get Dawkins' viewpoint wrong. He says it is very important for people to know the bible, also to appreciate literature, etc. and their own culture.

However, I do agree more with PZ Myers than Dawkins on the whole issue - religion should be a nice hobby activity for people, but not take over their lives.

I agree, though, that cultures should be preserved... on the other hand I think there might be a conflict with some cultures... some 'cultures' are harmful to children and we have to think about what is more important. It's sometimes difficult to judge.

Excuse me if I am being incoherent... my head is exploding, I think. >>

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[info]putti_plush
2008-04-13 08:53 pm UTC (link)
Un. *nods* My point though was that just as religion lays the foundation for religious extremism, the tracks go both ways. In the end, I believe balance is in order.

As for cultures that are detrimental to children, I don't think "Hey little boys give head to your elder males because sperm is a limited resource you know and you need to get it while you're young." is a very good practice. That's a few steps beyond pederasty. And while we're on pederasty, that creeps me out too from my modern viewpoint, even though it supposedly wasn't always sexual. I haven't yet encountered people RPing pederasty for TEH YAOI, but I am SURE it's out there (I've heard of it from Star Wars RP), and it makes me shiver. Age differences! Age differences! Also, I believe it is very harmful to children to teach them hate.

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